Phish.net: a Project of the Mockingbird Foundation


Comments

bs915 Reply
bs915 I think that is the worst idea ever. It is not a currency, it is a commodity. The value fluctuates too wildly, and it's not backed by anything. Also, two major exchanges are not allowing withdrawals at the moment.

It doesn't really hurt Mockingbird in the end, though, and that's the worst part. It hurts the donor. If bitcoin tanks, which it will, or if you can't access the funds, then it's just a donation that you may as well have not gotten. On the other hand, the donor could have put a lot of cash into the bitcoin, watched its value plummet, and realized that he didn't really make a donation at all and is out of the money.
Score: 2
jking007 Reply
Well, the US dollar is not really worth anything either, but we all agree it has value. Pretty much the same with virtual currency.
Score: 1
bs915 Reply
bs915 @jking007 said:
Well, the US dollar is not really worth anything either, but we all agree it has value. Pretty much the same with virtual currency.
No, it's not the same at all. We all agree the US dollar has value because it is backed by the "full faith and credit" of the United States government. This is why making sure the government does not default is important. Nobody "backs up" bitcoins, there's no Federal Reserve controlling the flow of bitcoins into the economy. Furthermore, the total number of bitcoins is capped at 22 million. There is no cap on the possible number of dollars or euros in the world.
Score: 2
MrJones Reply
MrJones @jking007 said:
Well, the US dollar is not really worth anything either, but we all agree it has value. Pretty much the same with virtual currency.
Yes, the US Dollar is worth a Dollar. If someone hacks into your bank account and steals all your dollars there is a legal framework to get that money back. If someone hacks your bitcoins, your out of luck.

Is the Mockingbird Foundation planning on making grants for music education in Bitcoin? Or just turning it into cash and then making grants with that? It seems like it would be fairly challenging to figure out a grant structure with a constantly fluctuating bitcoin "market".

Good luck with this decision. I don't envy whoever keeps the books for Mockingbird.
Score: 1
MiguelSanchez Reply
MiguelSanchez I'm so conflicted. I love the mockingbird foundation, but i think bitcoins are pretty far over on the dumb spectrum.

Well, I hope you guys roll in the bitcoin dough!!
Score: 1
HotPale Reply
HotPale Concensus says: say no to Bitcoins! I def. Would not accept Bitcoins on lot! You can't even ground score Bitcoins so that's pretty lame! now if we could donate our hard work in goods to Mockingbird and have the foundation turn those products into currency for charity then I'm all for IT!
Score: 0
Lemuria Phish.net Staff Reply
Lemuria @bs915 said:
I think that is the worst idea ever. It is not a currency, it is a commodity. The value fluctuates too wildly, and it's not backed by anything. Also, two major exchanges are not allowing withdrawals at the moment.
None of those are reasons not to accept bitcoins, something we were asked to do, by previous donors who trade in bitcoins.

It doesn't really hurt Mockingbird in the end, though, and that's the worst part. It hurts the donor. If bitcoin tanks, which it will, or if you can't access the funds, then it's just a donation that you may as well have not gotten. On the other hand, the donor could have put a lot of cash into the bitcoin, watched its value plummet, and realized that he didn't really make a donation at all and is out of the money.
That doesn't make any sense. The only thing that matters to the donor, whether for tax purposes or just good vibes, is the value at the time of donation - whether they donate dollars, bitcoins, or something else. Change in value after that time, has no negative effect on anyone involved - and certainly doesn't "hurt the donor." Besides, Coinbase offers, as a standard feature, immediate conversion to US$ and transfer to a bank, which means there *isn't* any change in value, much less a plummet.

The future will be a world of many more currencies (and commodities traded *as* currencies) than there are now. Many of them will be digital. Bitcoin has a clear lead, and advantages, in that evolution. But if there's a reasonable chance they'll improve our ability to fund more music education, we're happy to consider others, as well.
Score: 5
bs915 Reply
bs915 First, history shows a general trend towards fewer currencies (every state and damn near every bank in the US had their own, the Euro), though I appreciate you semi-acknowledging the commodity traded "as" currency bit. I think the lack of stability is the primary reason people are staying away from bitcoins, and a huge reason not to accept them.

Automatic conversion at least eliminates the concern of value decrease, which I think is a real concern. Of course the economic value of the donation does not matter to the donor after it has left his hands. But, if I donated a bunch of cymbals and saxophones to a high school band, I'd be pretty bummed if they got destroyed in transit, thus decreasing the emotional value of the donation to me. Similarly, if I donated 2 bitcoins, only to find that, before you were able to withdraw them, their value went from $1,600 to $200, I'd be disappointed that I didn't help as much as I wanted to. Economically, I'm still out the $1,600 either way, but dammit, if I'd used a credit card or written a check, at least the whole $1,600 would have ended up where I wanted it to! Bitcoin glitches
more bitcoin security issues
bitcoin is not a currency explained
Score: 2
Lemuria Phish.net Staff Reply
Lemuria @bs915 said:
First, history shows a general trend towards fewer currencies (every state and damn near every bank in the US had their own, the Euro),
It showed a general trend toward fewer newspapers, too, until print stopped mattering and everyone became a reporter. Consolidation isn't always a constant, especially online.

though I appreciate you semi-acknowledging the commodity traded "as" currency bit. I think the lack of stability is the primary reason people are staying away from bitcoins, and a huge reason not to accept them.
The instability drives some folks, such as yourself, away - but clearly attracts others, whether they're speculating on the finances of bitcoins or on the digitization of the economy. Nothing about that is a reason not to accept anything anyone wants to donate that might fund more grants.

Automatic conversion at least eliminates the concern of value decrease, which I think is a real concern. Of course the economic value of the donation does not matter to the donor after it has left his hands. But, if I donated a bunch of cymbals and saxophones to a high school band, I'd be pretty bummed if they got destroyed in transit, thus decreasing the emotional value of the donation to me. Similarly, if I donated 2 bitcoins, only to find that, before you were able to withdraw them, their value went from $1,600 to $200, I'd be disappointed that I didn't help as much as I wanted to. Economically, I'm still out the $1,600 either way, but dammit, if I'd used a credit card or written a check, at least the whole $1,600 would have ended up where I wanted it to!
We'd love to receive that check! :)
Score: 2
ndphanjeff Reply
Take Dogecoin! Their community is a much more generous and charitable one.
Score: 0
turbidite Reply
I'm a fan of Dogecoin. I think BBQcoin is pretty good as well!
Score: 0
Lemuria Phish.net Staff Reply
Lemuria @Fluffhead, @ndphanjeff, and @turbidite - thanks for the suggestion! We're now accepting Dogecoin via Cryptsy, via this trade key:
d9fef2f0cd807a5dc84fda5ec672dbf2b38ce1ec
Score: 1
SwampSoul Reply
Should also create a Quark donation address - Quark community is growing fast and looking to do a lot of charitable projects.
Score: 0

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