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MSG3: "Show of Life" Now OFF the Board for NYE

Posted 1 year ago by bertoletdown - 112 comments Link: http://phi.sh/b/50e13b3e

See the title up there? That’s the last thing I’m going to say about “Show of Life.”

And now the rest is easy, because now I get to review a really great Phish show. Better yet, I get to review a really great Phish show that doesn’t quite start out that way.

The band takes the stage at 8:18 p.m. MSG time. Page and Trey are wearing the same outfits they wore the prior two nights. Mike is dressed in his 5th outfit of the run, give or take an artisanal pashmina. And you know what Fish is wearing.

A playful “Wolfman’s” rescued Friday’s first set, which otherwise suffered from poor flow and lagging energy. Tonight’s first set has no such dramatic character beat of redemption, but it doesn’t need any, either. The set list is solid through and through, and the band members visibly overcome a few real musical struggles along the way, earning the tremendous breakthrough they will achieve in the second half.

A short but sweet “Runaway Jim” gets the big red ball rolling. There’s a long pause before “Cities,” which was a rare bright spot in last year’s holiday run. This version lacks that intensity, but ends in a curious way. The “Divided Sky” that arrives next is well-placed and more chaotic than most, some of which I mean as a compliment. “Back on the Train” takes a straight and narrow path to a belly-warming peak, while the camera operators deliver some of the run’s best webcasted images.

Ride Captain Ride”... where to start, exactly? Okay, here’s the straight poop: Ellis Godard hates “Ride Captain Ride” so much* that we’re not allowed to talk about it on the email list, so let’s not talk about it here either. Instead, let’s talk about how “Ocelot” has quietly become a really cool song, or how tonight’s “Horn” is played to perfection. Or, we can marvel at the way Fishman kneads the tempo during “My Friend,” transforming a clunky reading of this underrated song into an inspired one.

In the end it all hangs together quite nicely in the form of a solidly above average first set of Phish. And while it’s hard to imagine not enjoying the first frame quite a bit, the band will make a far more emphatic statement in the frame that follows.

Sometimes you just know, from the very beginning, don’t you? From the first notes of “Down with Disease,” it is obvious that the first set has imparted new confidence. All the heavy lifting is done, there’s a breeze in the room, and it’s time to punch the red button on the Wonkavator.

And, oh, the places we will go.

All four band members take turns steering this lyrical “DwD” jam in different directions, but Fishman’s feints and surges of tempo are its elegant throughline. Along the journey, Page sprinkles in some Asian ingredients, Trey flirts with Calypso, and Mike invokes meatball metal. This captivating excursion terminates in a version of “Twenty Years Later” that once again benefits from Fishman’s effortless command of pace. The more he pulls back on the reins, the more power the song gathers.

An opulent, horrific “Carini” follows. This spellbinding jam section veers from Ummagumma-era Floyd to TV movie-of-the-week score music to The Wall-era Floyd, and all points in between. It puts to rest a hose-drenched third quarter of Phish that is more readily compared with Dick’s 2012 than MSG 2011.

If not so well-delivered, “Backwards Down the Number Line” and “Julius” might prove a drag in this placement, but both are outstanding. Trey makes a triumphant statement with his playing in each before introducing a wonderfully languid “Slave to the Traffic Light”; then he stays firmly in control throughout this “Slave,” leading the rest of the conversation to a powerful conclusion. The “Harry Hood” encore, apart from being a wonderfully played “Harry Hood” encore, appears to be a genuine novelty, as it has never followed “Slave.”

But really, one need not look to novelty or gimmicks for reasons to appreciate tonight’s show. It’s certainly the strongest start to finish effort since summer, with a second set that merits a seat at the debate table for the best of 2012. And the main event is mere hours away.

With that in mind, rest. Be safe. Eat a good breakfast. Remember: you survived the Mayan apocalypse. Make it count for something.

* The truth of the matter is that Ellis Godard really, really loves “Ride Captain Ride” and we’re all really happy he got to see it tonight.

Comments

deBebbler Reply
deBebbler Great show. Good write-up.

After a show like tonight, it's like the night before never happened.
Score: 4
sausagemahoney Phish.net Staff Reply
sausagemahoney Lmao, I was going to suggest this title, but you were way ahead of me. Great recap of a great show
Score: 3
bertoletdown Phish.net Staff Reply
bertoletdown LOL -- I knew you would have thought of it already too.

Thanks.
Score: 1
jezmond Reply
jezmond Just listened to Divided Sky, and at first I thought, "Man good old 3.0 dullness", but then the backend of the jam proved worthy. Holy moly, listen to about 3:00 before the end of the song. We're talking 1991 Phish jammage, with 2012 sound quality. As Trey has been doing since the reuniting of the band, he sat back into the jam, and let Mike and Page build a nice melody wall around his high notes, and then Trey kept driving the walls of that bubble out. That's the only way I can describe it. It was great stuff. Okay, onto the rest of the show...
Score: 3
bertoletdown Phish.net Staff Reply
bertoletdown That's an interesting description. I really liked that D. Sky quite a bit. It was a bit more abstract than most of them seem to me.
Score: 0
themindpilot Reply
themindpilot This show was great!

Went on Friday and had the time of my life! Streamed last night and tonight I watched the webcast at friends house on HDTV with the audio hooked up to a Bose radio and vibed out.

And please will everyone grow up and stop all the Show of Life bashing? its seriously annoying. If you hate Show of Life then you hate Bug. and if you hate bug then i feel but but for you but come on, im sick of hearing people moan and grown over a well written, goodhearted tune with a great solo and decent jam at the end. Whats all the bitching about? They literally thank the fans in the song and nobody can give them respect for it?

Anyways Phish is in the zone and the fans know it and we are just basking....

Thanks Phish.
Score: 9
pauly Reply
pauly Anyone else hear the I don't Care tease?
Score: 0
bertoletdown Phish.net Staff Reply
bertoletdown pilot, there are very few Phish songs I don't like. Is it cool with you if I don't like SoL?
Score: 2
themindpilot Reply
themindpilot Its cool if you have a legitimate reason. If so explain to me why that song can't be liked by phans... I feel like its one of those songs that because "its known" "some" phans don't like it, it makes me feel like im not allowed to like it. and i hate that. And its annoying to see it be right on the title of this post, like its a widely accepted notion...unquestionable....well F that.

I feel the people who dont like IT, would like IT if they just saw it from the right angle if that makes any sense.

Its a beautiful song. Is that why some people can't like it?
Score: 6
sausagemahoney Phish.net Staff Reply
sausagemahoney @Pauly7917, you mean the end of DwD, right? Need to relisten, but at the time I was hoping for a segue into I Don't Care.
Score: 0
FACTSAREUSELESS Reply
Nice review, though overly brief.....I like how you point out the work the band went through to get to set 2....It's an oft-overlooked aspect. I get the impression from a lot of phans that they think the band just didn't step up to the plate when a show is "average". Your point about the work of it all is well-made...as a musician myself I can tell you that it takes enormous effort and concentration to play this style of music, that is, the way Phish plays it (not the strung-out-thanks-for-coming-but-I really-don't-fucking-care-anymore way the Dead did it). The fact that the boys have so few tour dates makes it surprising to me that they have had so many great performances recently. Been almost three months since they played together and only one average show out of three? That's pretty amazing.
By the way, I LOVE SHOW OF LIFE!! There.....now that I've lost all credibility with you, let me add that I think it's an awesome encore song. (I'm quite sick of Loving Cup). Then again, I like Bug as an encore, too, so you get my drift.
I mean, what IS YOUR PROBLEM, really? Are you afraid of drifting into the mist?
;)
Score: 4
ColForbin Phish.net Staff Reply
ColForbin @themindpilot said:
Its cool if you have a legitimate reason.
"Just as the blind imagine/what it is to have sight"

That's my legitimate reason.

But yeah, it is wrong to assume everyone hates it (but that is also obvious at the show given the cheers it gets).
Score: 1
drrandy Reply
Sounds like a great show but I am sorry to hear that Show Of Life is "off the board" for NYE. I don't see what would have been wrong with them playing it on NYE- it is a fine song and the lyrics are appropriate for a New Year's show. If Phish playing it on NYE would have somehow ruined the show for you, that is rather sad. That said, I do appreciate your reviews...
Score: 4
FACTSAREUSELESS Reply
OKAY, ENOUGH!!!! I like Show of Life, but c'mon.....

Still on the table for tonight are Sand, Crosseyed&Painless, If I Could, and SHAFTY!!!!!!!
Did I mention SHAFTY?? LIGHT?

Just sayin'
Score: 3
MoreSand Reply
Crosseyed, Sand, Ghost second set tonight?
Score: 1
FACTSAREUSELESS Reply
@MoreSand said:
Crosseyed, Sand, Ghost second set tonight?
sounds good to me.....annnnndddddd shafty
Score: 1
Matt_Leaf Reply
Matt_Leaf Some brevity in the spirit of resting up for tonight:

1) That was a LOT of fun

2) These reviews are too nit-picky at times

3) So glad Ellis finally got his Ride Captain, Ride.
Score: 0
HarryHerring Reply
HarryHerring The most thrilling moments for me last night were hearing Phish let quiet rule the stage. There 3 or 4 moments that were ripe for a ripchord by one of the boys but instead they allowed things to get quiet, sometimes down to one instrument, and then a new chunk of musical ooze would bubble up from the ether. It was crazy.
When Fish is loose on the skins, keeping the back beat with the kick drum and adding texture with the rest of the kit, is when Phish goes places. Polar opposite from Night2, which was all precision and no abandon.
What is it about the jams in this run that are so different than the great jams from Dicks? Here they seem to be spacious, troubled, frenetic and freakishly asymetrical.
At Dicks they ran the gamut from melodic and dagger sharp to syncopated and funky.
Such a vast and diverse chasm could only be achieved by Phish, doing what I think most of truly believe no other band on Earth could do right now. And in the space of only a few months!
Listening now to the troubled, wide open vistas of last nights Carini and the bottled nuclear energy, creeping vine Sand -> Ghost from Dicks one has to KNOW its Phish to really believe that its a single band making all that sweeping and ambitious noise. Its a wonder they dont fall flat on their faces at more shows.
And to have the ability and willingness to infuse version after version of songs like Hood and Slave with melodic vigor and crushing emotional dedication is a testament to love of not just music, but of life, that guides everything they do on stage.
1st Set Highlites - a jaunty and fun Divided Sky, another totally bitching Ocelot, which Trey took to some fun places very quickly and an Antelope with that didn't quit.
2nd Set - DWD, even though most of us knew it was coming and that it would most likely be big, it's a safe bet that none of us thought it would be the Disease that it is. It totters on its heels like a drunkard but never collapsed, it remained terse yet also expansive, it was like watching a David Lynch movie in church. I grinned like an idiot the whole time.
Carini, ah Carini. To get thrown down in the 3 hole of a 2nd set with such a storied history was pure balls. Sipowitz wearing a tie with a short sleeve shirt balls. Such a gambit risked the entire set but I doubt their was a head amongst us that wasn't pleased as punch when they did it!
Page throws down some dark low end, classical sounded keys, Trey picks up on the movement and its off to the races. The rest is history. Mike and Fish move from lead to support with unfair ease. Masters of their crafts just fucking the auditory gods of old.
Ok, on to the big show.
With Light, Ghost, Sand & YEM being near locks things will probably, somehow, get even stranger. Beyond the pale.
Have a safe and happy NYE!
Score: 4
whatstheuse324 Reply
whatstheuse324 Great show, probably the best of the first three. I wanted to point out that the first set of night one did not lack any flow or energy. Wolfmans brother was awesome but it didn't save anything. Everyone around me there were dancing their asses off to a funky and well played first set dominated by mike and page. The energy of first night was palpable throughout.
Anyway, looking forward to one more amazing show tonight, happy new year everyone.
Score: 1
ginseng_sullivan Reply
I'm pretty sure anyone is entitled to like or dislike any song they choose. I think.
Score: 4
telascomet Reply
telascomet Last Nights show was great. There were moments in "Slave" When it sound a little like "The Great Went, Bathtub gin" jamming. DWD Was awesome. I was expecting it but not in this fashion. The First set really set a solid stage (No Pun Intended) for the boys to Amaze in aspects of set two. Ocelot is slowly becoming more and more a good go to "Type I" Jam. Ya Mar was a good upbeat tight jam which Cactus nailed it.Carini, Was amazing wasn't expecting it togo in to such an amazing spacey jam as it did.BDTNL was really good and actually served as more of a filler. Julius Never fails to displays Trey's ability to shred. Hood Was very good Strong finish no complaints there

Set 1: 7.5/10
Set 2: 9/10
Encore: 8/10

I'm Feeling some bluegrass jams like I didn't know tonight, that would be sick. Maybe a Harpua. Pumped for YEM to be expected.
Score: 0
telascomet Reply
telascomet * I meant BDTNL was more then just a filler. It was good.@telascomet said:
Last Nights show was great. There were moments in "Slave" When it sound a little like "The Great Went, Bathtub gin" jamming. DWD Was awesome. I was expecting it but not in this fashion. The First set really set a solid stage (No Pun Intended) for the boys to Amaze in aspects of set two. Ocelot is slowly becoming more and more a good go to "Type I" Jam. Ya Mar was a good upbeat tight jam which Cactus nailed it.Carini, Was amazing wasn't expecting it togo in to such an amazing spacey jam as it did.BDTNL was really good and actually served as more of a filler. Julius Never fails to displays Trey's ability to shred. Hood Was very good Strong finish no complaints there

Set 1: 7.5/10
Set 2: 9/10
Encore: 8/10

I'm Feeling some bluegrass jams like I didn't know tonight, that would be sick. Maybe a Harpua. Pumped for YEM to be expected.
Score: 0
MirthBeatenWorkr Reply
I feel like a lot of these glowing reviews are written by kids who desperately want 3.0 Phish to measure up to the past, so they hump anything in a show that reminds them of Riverport Gin or whatever. Last night was a fine show. I thoroughly enjoyed it. But make no mistake kids. The old days are long gone.
Score: 3
DuckofDeath Reply
You're right. Riverport Gin is sweeeeeeeeeet!
Score: 0
snucksally Reply
I think a lot of fans, myself included, find Show of Life lyrically weak. If pilot had written this review, I think there would be a lot more disagreements in this comment section. But most of us have songs we like less than others. That's OK and probably a good thing. Otherwise this dialogue would be pretty boring.

For the record, I love Bug, and it's one of the few slower songs that can be appropriately placed in the second set.
Score: 0
Potato_Sacks Reply
Potato_Sacks @MirthBeatenWorkr said:
I feel like a lot of these glowing reviews are written by kids who desperately want 3.0 Phish to measure up to the past, so they hump anything in a show that reminds them of Riverport Gin or whatever. Last night was a fine show. I thoroughly enjoyed it. But make no mistake kids. The old days are long gone.
You're boring.
People that remind people that the past isn't the present bore me.
I'm glad you enjoyed the show. I'm sorry to hear you're still comparing them to the "old days"
Score: 12
DuckofDeath Reply
It's a hard truth dude. When others want to, say, claim last night's DWD measures up to 1.0, I just have to laugh. It was a perfectly fine jam, but nothing like the classic jams. We went through similar stuff in the early 1990's with deadheads who wanted to claim those shows measured up to the Dead in '77. It's nice to dream, but it just ain't happening.

Look, my point isn't that Phish isn't a great band anymore. Quite the contrary. They are still a great show. But people need to tone down the hyperbolic rhetoric and get a little historical perspective.
Score: -2
MirthBeatenWorkr Reply
Potato,

I'm not trying to be a downer. Just telling the truth.
Score: 0
bertoletdown Phish.net Staff Reply
bertoletdown @themindpilot said:
Its cool if you have a legitimate reason. If so explain to me why that song can't be liked by phans... I feel like its one of those songs that because "its known" "some" phans don't like it, it makes me feel like im not allowed to like it. and i hate that. And its annoying to see it be right on the title of this post, like its a widely accepted notion...unquestionable....well F that.

I feel the people who dont like IT, would like IT if they just saw it from the right angle if that makes any sense.

Its a beautiful song. Is that why some people can't like it?
That's it, yes. I hate it because it's beautiful.

Or maybe I hate it because the lyrics are trite. I don't know.

But it doesn't matter. Why would you or anybody else let some other person's opinion get in the way of your enjoyment of a song? If you love it, then you're winning; I certainly wish my opinion were your opinion. But then it wouldn't be mine.

Some of you are way too uptight. It's Phish.

Mirth, you in particular sound like a gas at parties.

Happy New Year, urvabody.
Score: 4
bertoletdown Phish.net Staff Reply
bertoletdown @FACTSAREUSELESS said:
By the way, I LOVE SHOW OF LIFE!! There.....now that I've lost all credibility with you, let me add that I think it's an awesome encore song. (I'm quite sick of Loving Cup). Then again, I like Bug as an encore, too, so you get my drift.
I mean, what IS YOUR PROBLEM, really? Are you afraid of drifting into the mist?
;)
I love Bug. I also love Coil, and Guyute, and Velvet Sea, and Alaska, and a bunch of other songs that catch flack in my peer group. I'm an unabashed appreciator of Phish music and Phish songs. I just do not like Show of Life. It makes me cringe. The response is involuntary. But it's really not that big a deal.
Score: 1
Matt_Leaf Reply
Matt_Leaf Personally, I don't let how much fun I had in the past affect my ability to have fun in the present.

"If you put one foot on yesterday and the other foot on tomorrow, you shit on today"
Score: 5
bertoletdown Phish.net Staff Reply
bertoletdown HarryHerring, love your comment/mini-review. Well done.
Score: 2
MOstGhoSt Reply
down with disease - most amazing - i was lost in a good place last night with that one - i was thinking... yea.

definitely worth a revisit on the recording. i like the review here because i couldn't hear it that way, as the parts of a whole. i just heard one thing unified.

and i may have said aloud to my friends next to me, "f*** the critics" at some appropriate point during that jam. or maybe i was just thinking that and never said it aloud.

one thing i noticed last night - cities seemed to end too abruptly. it seemed as if there could have been something there... that went missing.

and carini was great, wandering in sound. another highlight last night.

the only thing that phish could do to disappoint me would be to not show up, start extremely late, or stop a concert with some sort or drama. i was surprised to hear there were so many complaints about the first two shows. there were really excellent moments every night. for example, i remember a most flawless transition into suzy greenberg on friday night, a moment. i think one factor is that there is no fall tour anymore these days. years back and for awhile there was always a fall tour leading up to the new years run and things were all... in the zone heading into new year's.

so the thing is - next year - phish should do a fall tour october and november in the north east. that would be the recipe for an amazing over the top epic new years run at msg. ... just a heartfelt suggestion based on past experience.

all that said - i have enjoyed every moment every night on this run and i am glad to be here with my friends. happy new year in advance.
Score: 1
Ravinus Reply
Nestled in the swamps of the Seminole Indian Reservation is a part of Phish that we will never see or hear again. RIP Phish 1.0. We had great years together and your final days were magnificent. If life were easy, and not so fast...

Noobs, you will never have what those of us lucky enough to have experienced the 80's and 90's had. Stop trying to convince everyone that you do. Jaded Phans (my bretheren), just enjoy the new tunes, the new directions, and, above all, the show. It's phucking Phish, dammit!
Score: -2
Matt_Leaf Reply
Matt_Leaf Not all older phans are jaded
Score: 2
FACTSAREUSELESS Reply
@snucksally said:
I think a lot of fans, myself included, find Show of Life lyrically weak. If pilot had written this review, I think there would be a lot more disagreements in this comment section. But most of us have songs we like less than others. That's OK and probably a good thing. Otherwise this dialogue would be pretty boring.

For the record, I love Bug, and it's one of the few slower songs that can be appropriately placed in the second set.
I agree with your comments snucksally, but I have to tell you that I find it categorically hilarious that a person could accuse a band like Phish of having a "lyrically weak" song. Not disagreeing with you per se, just pointing out that Tweezer, Fluffhead, etc. are not exactly written by Edgar Allen Poe or Shakespeare. Really??? Lyrically weak? That's really funny.
Score: 2
FACTSAREUSELESS Reply
@bertoletdown said:
@FACTSAREUSELESS said:
By the way, I LOVE SHOW OF LIFE!! There.....now that I've lost all credibility with you, let me add that I think it's an awesome encore song. (I'm quite sick of Loving Cup). Then again, I like Bug as an encore, too, so you get my drift.
I mean, what IS YOUR PROBLEM, really? Are you afraid of drifting into the mist?
;)
I love Bug. I also love Coil, and Guyute, and Velvet Sea, and Alaska, and a bunch of other songs that catch flack in my peer group. I'm an unabashed appreciator of Phish music and Phish songs. I just do not like Show of Life. It makes me cringe. The response is involuntary. But it's really not that big a deal.
loved the comments thanks!! :) :) :)
Score: 0
elfinito Reply
@MirthBeatenWorkr said:
Potato,

I'm not trying to be a downer. Just telling the truth.
Its a very subjective truth (and a quite arrogant one at that.)

You want to have your opinion fine -- but don't tell us that disagree with you we are WRONG -- art is subjective, get over yourself.

It may not be the deep grooves of 97 or the intense Tweezer sets of 95 but if some of my favorite sets of all-time Phish have been in 2012.

And with Sand Light and Ghost on the table (never mind BoF, YEM, Alumini Blues...)...I feel tonight may be a NYE show to remember.

Score: 1
HarryHerring Reply
HarryHerring Show of Life just feels really emotionally manipulative, like the songwriting doesn't earn the feelings that it's attempting to express. I felt this way about BDTNL for a long time but now that it's grown legs I love the song and am happy to sing along. Tom's songwriting has just been in much more straitforward, narrative, vein in 3.0. When he comes at his expressions from an angle as in Ocelot, it works brilliantly, not so much in songs like Joy and Show of Life. But they can't all be zingers so what they hay?
@bertoletdown - thanks for the love, despite the typos.
To the haters - I'll stack the 12/28/12 & 6/3/11 DWD's against the like's of a 7/1/98 or a 5/21/00 version ANY day of the week. How about the Dick's Sand against, well, damn near every other version out there?
We've gotten all timers from Chalkdust, Fee, Sally, Rock n' Roll, Carini.....we've gotten versions of Ghost, Hood, BOAF, Waves, Undermind and more that I CANNOT imagine doing without.
And, Light??
Comparing something current with something from the past is natural, but using it as a self serving tool to validate your own myopic haze just tells everyone you've completely missed the point.
Score: 7
HarryHerring Reply
HarryHerring make that the 12/30/12 DWD.
Score: 0
beanholestatus Reply
beanholestatus so you bash the 29ths first set, literally pointing out not one good thing, but since they jammed out the 30ths seconed set, now ull point out the highlights of that first set.
Score: 0
MirthBeatenWorkr Reply
Elf,

Though I think you're wrong, I respect your point of view. I've enjoyed a lot of 3.0 Phish, though little of it touched Phish in its heyday. You may think that's being subjective, but most people who know Phish 1.0, 2.0, and 3.0 agree with me.

Happy New Year

Its a very subjective truth (and a quite arrogant one at that.)

You want to have your opinion fine -- but don't tell us that disagree with you we are WRONG -- art is subjective, get over yourself.

It may not be the deep grooves of 97 or the intense Tweezer sets of 95 but if some of my favorite sets of all-time Phish have been in 2012.

And with Sand Light and Ghost on the table (never mind BoF, YEM, Alumini Blues...)...I feel tonight may be a NYE show to remember.[/quote]
Score: 1
Brandonclick77 Reply
The last 5 minutes of Carini made the run for me, Dark and hypnotic...
Score: 0
HenryHolland Reply
HenryHolland
Noobs, you will never have what those of us lucky enough to have experienced the 80's and 90's had.
I'm a 2.0 nOOb, I get that, I've been in your seat with other bands that I got in to at the start > had to watch nOObs come in the fanbase.

I had no interest in checking out Phish in the 90's because I loathe the Grateful Dead > the "Phish are Dead clones" thing. Since 1994 is my favorite year of Phish, I really screwed the pooch on that one! Still, I've been to some hot 2.0/3.0 shows (6/19/04, 8/7/09, 9/2/11) *and* a show as my first one that was so badly played (see: OxyTrey) that I'm surprised I came back (7/8/03).

When he comes at his expressions from an angle as in Ocelot, it works brilliantly, not so much in songs like Joy and Show of Life.
I love the song Joy, especially the lyrics, which are partly about Trey's dying sister Kristy. I'm glad that I've heard it 3 times out of the 27 performed! :-)

Here's for a new album and more touring by Phish in 2013!

...cause this is your song too.........
Score: 3
CurtisLoew Reply
Sleeping Monkey tonight?
Score: 0
snucksally Reply
I agree with your comments snucksally, but I have to tell you that I find it categorically hilarious that a person could accuse a band like Phish of having a "lyrically weak" song. Not disagreeing with you per se, just pointing out that Tweezer, Fluffhead, etc. are not exactly written by Edgar Allen Poe or Shakespeare. Really??? Lyrically weak? That's really funny.

It's the zany, nonsensical lyrics of those songs that got me hooked on this dorky band back in junior high. And that's one reason I've had a tough time stomaching some of the more serious songs: it's just not their forte. It actually took me a long time to like some slower and more serious songs like Waste and If I Could. Perhaps someday I will come around on Show of Life as well. But they'd never end the show with the other two.
Score: 1
HenryHolland Reply
HenryHolland
But they'd never end the show with the other two
Not true, Waste is used occasionally as a set 2 ender/last song in the encore, it closed out set 2 at my first Phish show. Even If I Could has ended a first set a couple of times.

Speaking of mellow songs that a lot of phans don't like, I'd love to hear Anything But Me live, I love the lyrics.
Score: 0
dscott Reply
@HarryHerring said:
Show of Life just feels really emotionally manipulative, like the songwriting doesn't earn the feelings that it's attempting to express. I felt this way about BDTNL for a long time but now that it's grown legs I love the song and am happy to sing along. Tom's songwriting has just been in much more straitforward, narrative, vein in 3.0. When he comes at his expressions from an angle as in Ocelot, it works brilliantly, not so much in songs like Joy and Show of Life. But they can't all be zingers so what they hay?
@bertoletdown - thanks for the love, despite the typos.
To the haters - I'll stack the 12/28/12 & 6/3/11 DWD's against the like's of a 7/1/98 or a 5/21/00 version ANY day of the week. How about the Dick's Sand against, well, damn near every other version out there?
We've gotten all timers from Chalkdust, Fee, Sally, Rock n' Roll, Carini.....we've gotten versions of Ghost, Hood, BOAF, Waves, Undermind and more that I CANNOT imagine doing without.
And, Light??
Comparing something current with something from the past is natural, but using it as a self serving tool to validate your own myopic haze just tells everyone you've completely missed the point.
Couldn't have said it any better...except that I wouldn't blame Tom Marshall for the Dude's lyrics in the Show. (Of Life begat Of Life, or so the good book says.)

I have come to appreciate Show Of Life as a sort of "art imitates art", with awkward and cliche lyrics mirroring the "struggle and strife" that they describe at first, then gaining strength in their pithy wisdom as they describe the same. I groan with everyone else when it first appears, but invariably it moves me deeply before it ends. Again - art imitates art.
Score: 1
FACTSAREUSELESS Reply
@MOstGhoSt said:
i think one factor is that there is no fall tour anymore these days. years back and for awhile there was always a fall tour leading up to the new years run and things were all... in the zone heading into new year's.

so the thing is - next year - phish should do a fall tour october and november in the north east. that would be the recipe for an amazing over the top epic new years run at msg. ... just a heartfelt suggestion based on past experience.

all that said - i have enjoyed every moment every night on this run and i am glad to be here with my friends. happy new year in advance.
Right on......I agree completely. The lack of the fall tour contributes to two problems: 1) The band is not properly greased up before the NYE run and 2) The fans are event driven, rather than music driven, which I believe contributes to the Reba disaster..

I am on board with your petition. Hey Trey, how about a Phish tour next fall instead of TAB? Are you listening?
Score: 3
FACTSAREUSELESS Reply
@Ravinus said:
Nestled in the swamps of the Seminole Indian Reservation is a part of Phish that we will never see or hear again. RIP Phish 1.0. We had great years together and your final days were magnificent. If life were easy, and not so fast...

Noobs, you will never have what those of us lucky enough to have experienced the 80's and 90's had. Stop trying to convince everyone that you do. Jaded Phans (my bretheren), just enjoy the new tunes, the new directions, and, above all, the show. It's phucking Phish, dammit!
Sorry to post AGAIN, but Ravinus, really, if you had any idea how self-important, pathetic and nauseating you sound, you'd never post again. I'm not a noob, I'm an old Head, and you are not my brethren. Don't pretend you are. Stop confusing your drug-induced wasted youth with the "good old days of Phish". It wasn't what you thought it was, you're just nostalgic. The difference between the Dead and Phish is so vast it can't be used for comparison. The Dead were a shell of what they used to be by late '78, and Jerry had pretty much cashed in his chips by '80. The next 15 years was drivel. We all sat around watching him die while trying to salvage what we could from the shows. This is not like that at all. These guys are reiventing themselves before our eyes and all you do is pander to the past. THANK GOD IT'S NOT '97 ANYMORE. If they stopped at porno-funk they wouldn't be what they are today, which is relevant, vibrant, interesting. You really need to get a life. You think you sound intelligent and knowledgeable, but you actually sound like a teenager jerking off in the bathroom.
Jeez. Go buy a ticket to see Widespread Panic....they haven't developed at all in 20 years. They sound like your kind of band....
Score: 2
nichobert Reply
nichobert Where was the I Don't Care tease?

My favorite song that I doubted they remember writing
Score: 0
n00b100 Reply
n00b100 @MirthBeatenWorkr said:
Elf,

Though I think you're wrong, I respect your point of view. I've enjoyed a lot of 3.0 Phish, though little of it touched Phish in its heyday. You may think that's being subjective, but most people who know Phish 1.0, 2.0, and 3.0 agree with me.

Happy New Year

Sorry to track you down in yet another section of .net, but...you do realize that you're still being subjective, right? Not to mention *incredibly* presumptuous.
Score: 1
themindpilot Reply
themindpilot @ColForbin said:
@themindpilot said:
Its cool if you have a legitimate reason.
"Just as the blind imagine/what it is to have sight"

That's my legitimate reason.

But yeah, it is wrong to assume everyone hates it (but that is also obvious at the show given the cheers it gets).
Whats wrong with "Just as the blind imagine/what it is to have sight"?

I always hear a good cheer for SOL so that's false, considering trey usually nails the solo.
Score: 1
themindpilot Reply
themindpilot @HarryHerring said:
Show of Life just feels really emotionally manipulative, like the songwriting doesn't earn the feelings that it's attempting to express. .
Trey sings this straight from his heart. Life is not always easy. There is struggle and strife. We all find ourselves here on this journey "that i call life" lol thats from some song i cant think of the name right now but yeah what your calling "emotionally manipulative" is maybe just the feeling of those lyrics synching in, making you think....

well for me atleast

"Its no easy road
this struggle and strife
we find ourselves
in the show of life

What's on your schedule?
What's on the plan?
Do you ever ignore
what you don't understand?"

Of course we all ignore what we dont understand! Hes talking about our faults that we know we have and can. We ignore a little to much these days. Apathy is become a style and if thats true we'll never see a band like Phish again.
Score: 1
FACTSAREUSELESS Reply
Hey Pilot......I feel your pain man....I love the song too, because it hits home for me and I'm sure for Trey as well (or else he wouldn't play it so much).

I think you need to understand the point HarryHerring is making...These guys don't like it because it lacks subtlety. Phish specializes in vague and sophisticated imagery and song construction...songs that are like paintings which you have to stare at for a long time before you begin to get a sense of what you're looking at.

You have to admit that Show of Life is rather like a country song. Kind of "God bless us, everyone" sort of thing that a lot of us aren't prepared for. They're not hating on it, per se.
I like the song very much, but I remember hating Throwing Stones when Bob Weir started crooning it in the '80's. I thought it was pandering and manipulative.
Do you know that song? If not, look it up and listen to a version of it, and you'll perhaps understand what all the digs are about with SOL.
Peace, bro.
Score: 2
MirthBeatenWorkr Reply
Noob,

Nah, I'm just speaking the truth.
Score: -2
FACTSAREUSELESS Reply
You're hopeless, Mirth.
Happy New Year anyway.
Score: 0
MirthBeatenWorkr Reply
FACTS,

I'm not sure where that came from, but Happy New Year to you too. I hope it's a good one.
Score: 0
FACTSAREUSELESS Reply
I was laughing at you because you're consistent and don't say much, Mirth.

Just thought your post was funny, that's all.

Thanks for the tidings. Peace.
Score: 0
familyberzerkr Reply
Facts,

That's cool. I really didn't care.
Score: 0
waxbanks Reply
waxbanks @MirthBeatenWorkr said:
Elf,

Though I think you're wrong, I respect your point of view. I've enjoyed a lot of 3.0 Phish, though little of it touched Phish in its heyday. You may think that's being subjective, but most people who know Phish 1.0, 2.0, and 3.0 agree with me.
wow, i haven't seen the word 'subjective' subjected to such graphic violence in a long, long time

i think of myself as a fellow who knows a little bit about a little bit
not a towering intellect but a decent man trying to think it through,

very very handsome but modest;

and i can't help thinking that

--> kindly pay attention

a man who comes to a phish fansite in 2012 to say 'they'll never be as good as they were when clinton was president and THOSE ARE FACTS' or whatever the shit

is not hearing what he needs to hear
and could use a breather.
Score: 3
waxbanks Reply
waxbanks sidebar, are we really debating whether 'show of life' is a crap song? it's a crap song. if a 6-year-old cancer victim wrote it on his deathbed i'd listen and cry and feel amazed and connected to him, my heart would overflow, because i'd be listening to that kid, and hearing him instead of the mawkish shit that is the actual song.

but trey anastasio, professional songwriter, has no excuse.
Score: 1
boyfacedog Reply
This Slave will be played on my deathbed- and if I'm still kicking than let the Hood roll
Score: 1
FACTSAREUSELESS Reply
waxbanks,

interesting take. Don't think this was supposed to turn into a debate about Show of Life, but I guess with the title of the thread, it was inevitable.

To take your "6 year on his deathbed" angle and borrow it....

It seems like a 6-yr.old who looks at the new meatloaf dinner his mom has prepared and refuses to eat it (because it doesn't look or taste exactly the same as before) would have much in common with old jaded vets and their Phish music.

Phish's music reflects their age. I'm almost 50, and I play it closer to the vest than I used to. I don't spontaneously free-climb rock walls anymore when I'm out hiking, but I look at them and remember when I had nothing to lose and no family to take care of.

Nowadays, there are less stretches of abandonment and wild unpredictability, but they have brief (or lately longer than brief) moments of absolute brilliance and mastery. These guys are tighter and more breathtaking then back in the old days, but those moments are fewer and there is more space between. Neither, however, do they fall off the table drunk anymore, and that counts for something, too.

When I say you old geezers are simply nostalgic, I'm not saying you don't have a point, just saying you are forgetting often what really went on.

The band will never be what they were in the 90's because then men playing the music aren't the same people as they were then. But they still now how to COOK.

Agree that there is no benefit to getting on a blog here just to say that "IT'S NOT THE 90'S ANYMORE" or some other shit. That's equivalent to standing at a bus stop and saying "IT'S COLD", or whatever. Takes no imagination or insight to do that, it doesn't contribute to anything useful, and it DOESN'T make you look smart.
Score: 0
ColForbin Phish.net Staff Reply
ColForbin @themindpilot said:
@ColForbin said:
@themindpilot said:
Its cool if you have a legitimate reason.
"Just as the blind imagine/what it is to have sight"

That's my legitimate reason.

But yeah, it is wrong to assume everyone hates it (but that is also obvious at the show given the cheers it gets).
Whats wrong with "Just as the blind imagine/what it is to have sight"?

I always hear a good cheer for SOL so that's false, considering trey usually nails the solo.
To the last point, my sentence structure was convoluted, but what I meant was that since SoL gets huge cheers every time they play it, it is obvious that most people like/love it.

And as for what's wrong with the line I quoted, well, it is one of the most trite lyrics in the history of rock and roll. It hits my ear like nails on a chalkboard.

Like a lot of people who posted in this tread, I am no ballad hater. I even love the much maligned Bug, for example. But, as much as I wish it were otherwise, I hate Show of Life, and none of you will convince me it is a good song. (Just like I won't convince those of you who love it that it sucks!)
Score: 1
waxbanks Reply
waxbanks @ColForbin said:
Like a lot of people who posted in this tread, I am no ballad hater. I even love the much maligned Bug, for example. But, as much as I wish it were otherwise, I hate Show of Life, and none of you will convince me it is a good song. (Just like I won't convince those of you who love it that it sucks!)
bug is one of the hardest things in phish fandom. it's a medusa: you gotta go in a little blind. if you think about, say, the incompetence of the rhymes, or the dumbass vocal melody, or the incredible laziness of the chorus, you'll miss a chance at something very intense. it only works in the dark, deep into a show -- but i never ever want it there, 'interrupting' the second set.

its jam is right in the band's wheelhouse, trey's/fish's especially, but in order to get there, you have to close your eyes and tiptoe past maybe the most effective momentum-killing song trey has ever written. it's so listless, lifeless, directionless, and *pointless* that it's like it was purpose-built to destroy the flow of a set...but if you can switch off *that* awareness, survive the unbearably stupid first verse, and just float on the lights and the images of expanse and gentle movement that begin the second verse, the remainder of the song functions like a more hesitant/ambivalent treatment of Prince Caspian, without that song's complexly beautiful surprise ending.

i'll never understand trey's insistence on pairing hood and bug (maybe the biter irony of ending the former with 'you can feel good' and the latter with 'it doesn't matter'?), but he likes the song, and as long as the band digs into it and fish does his 20YL-style magic on the kit, it always ends up covering its costs.

now, to hear garcia singing a much-slowed-down version of Show of Life...god, to hear that...
Score: 1
StStephen Reply
StStephen @bertoletdown-

Excellent review, I think you pretty much nailed it. I thought the last 3:00 min or so of Sky was pretty crazy, which you noted. Ocelot has really developed into an awesome, swampy first set song. Train popped and was fun and Antelope brought a really solid, imo, first set to a raging close.

Having been in West GA for this show, I can tell you that both Number Line and Julius were finely placed because good lord did everyone in the Garden need a breath of air after emerging from that 40 minutes of pure dark hose. Boy that Carini was spellbinding. I saw Worcester's and Dick's in person and I feel confident saying this was the Carini of 2012, and that's saying something. Slave was just sublime. I could have sworn I heard Fishman trying to launch into Hood after Slave but Trey restrained him til the encore. Did anyone else hear that? Hood was a beautiful rendition to put the finishing touches on a fantastic show.

Really good show and stands up with any of the great shows of 2012.
Score: 0
themindpilot Reply
themindpilot @waxbanks said:
sidebar, are we really debating whether 'show of life' is a crap song? it's a crap song. if a 6-year-old cancer victim wrote it on his deathbed i'd listen and cry and feel amazed and connected to him, my heart would overflow, because i'd be listening to that kid, and hearing him instead of the mawkish shit that is the actual song.

but trey anastasio, professional songwriter, has no excuse.
I Disagree whole-heartedly.
Score: 1
themindpilot Reply
themindpilot @waxbanks said:
@ColForbin said:
Like a lot of people who posted in this tread, I am no ballad hater. I even love the much maligned Bug, for example. But, as much as I wish it were otherwise, I hate Show of Life, and none of you will convince me it is a good song. (Just like I won't convince those of you who love it that it sucks!)
bug is one of the hardest things in phish fandom. it's a medusa: you gotta go in a little blind. if you think about, say, the incompetence of the rhymes, or the dumbass vocal melody, or the incredible laziness of the chorus, you'll miss a chance at something very intense. it only works in the dark, deep into a show -- but i never ever want it there, 'interrupting' the second set.

its jam is right in the band's wheelhouse, trey's/fish's especially, but in order to get there, you have to close your eyes and tiptoe past maybe the most effective momentum-killing song trey has ever written. it's so listless, lifeless, directionless, and *pointless* that it's like it was purpose-built to destroy the flow of a set...but if you can switch off *that* awareness, survive the unbearably stupid first verse, and just float on the lights and the images of expanse and gentle movement that begin the second verse, the remainder of the song functions like a more hesitant/ambivalent treatment of Prince Caspian, without that song's complexly beautiful surprise ending.

i'll never understand trey's insistence on pairing hood and bug (maybe the biter irony of ending the former with 'you can feel good' and the latter with 'it doesn't matter'?), but he likes the song, and as long as the band digs into it and fish does his 20YL-style magic on the kit, it always ends up covering its costs.

now, to hear garcia singing a much-slowed-down version of Show of Life...god, to hear that...
Oh but if Garcia did SOL then it would be something? O geezze give me a break!

Bug and Show of Life are GROWN UP songs. So grow up and respect them. To say Bug is a set killer is pretty much the dumbest thing you can say.

Music speaks for itself. Checkout the bug from Superball then come talk to me. haters!
Score: 2
bertoletdown Phish.net Staff Reply
bertoletdown Pilot, on this point I am with you and fuck that Waxbanks guy :) .

Bug is a great song.

It makes a statement that tickles my inner Buddhist - that the trappings of the outside world are illusory and don't matter, while what you see inside yourself can't be taken away. It is a very Eckhardt Tolle song, and a real palate cleanser if you get what's going on. I really like the country inflection of the guitar lines, and the fact that they give way to such a soaring arena rock vibe. It is a song that literally only Phish could have ever written, with the possible exception of a My Morning Jacket.
Score: 2
fluff_hen Reply
fluff_hen @FACTSAREUSELESS said:
The Dead were a shell of what they used to be by late '78, and Jerry had pretty much cashed in his chips by '80. The next 15 years was drivel. We all sat around watching him die while trying to salvage what we could from the shows. This is not like that at all. .
Good God, this is so wrong it's ludicrous. I hope you're actually 60 years old to be making such a statement. The GD had several peaks: 72-74, 77-78, 89-91... and each period has its partisans for "best ever". GD weren't a "washed up shell" by any stretch until 93 - 94. They were a great band and played many killer, killer shows in 1989, 1990, etc. IOW, the situation with Phish is EXACTLY the same: vets who have been around longer and prefer the way the band sounded in their youth, looking down on 3.0.. and they are entitled, but it's alot more fun to dig what is going on NOW.
Score: 3
newbornelph Reply
Happy New Year!!! I have an idea...lets argue opinions like 5th graders!!! I've been seeing Phish since the 90's and this idea of "noobs" and "vets" is hilarious to me! Conveying this idea that seeing a show in the 90's is some kind of accomplishment is hilarious! The accomplishments belong to 4 men, we just get to witness and reap the beauty of them. I've enjoyed many shows in different eras and some of you interject this idea of status into a scene that was attractive in the first place because status didn't matter. Just be in 2013 and let others do the same!
Score: 1
killdevilfalls Reply
Been a fan since Ithaca College days in early 90s. Bottom line for me? The boys were young then and they are older now. That's it. The rest is commentary.

Glad to have enjoyed my 4th NYE in a row with the Phish from Vermont.

Saw the two DCU shows and all three at Dick's then 12/30 and 12/31. From Worcester Carini to 12/31 Carini, I loved the effort.

Regarding Bug..."it doesn't matter".

Happy New Year from Cape Cod.
Will
Score: 0
MirthBeatenWorkr Reply
Wax,

I disagree with you. But thank you for your thoughts on the matter.
Score: 1
FACTSAREUSELESS Reply
@newbornelph said:
Happy New Year!!! I have an idea...lets argue opinions like 5th graders!!! I've been seeing Phish since the 90's and this idea of "noobs" and "vets" is hilarious to me! Conveying this idea that seeing a show in the 90's is some kind of accomplishment is hilarious! The accomplishments belong to 4 men, we just get to witness and reap the beauty of them. I've enjoyed many shows in different eras and some of you interject this idea of status into a scene that was attractive in the first place because status didn't matter. Just be in 2013 and let others do the same!
Thanks, and RIGHT ON!! (Obviously) I couldn't have said it better.
Score: 0
FACTSAREUSELESS Reply
@fluff_hen said:
@FACTSAREUSELESS said:
The Dead were a shell of what they used to be by late '78, and Jerry had pretty much cashed in his chips by '80. The next 15 years was drivel. We all sat around watching him die while trying to salvage what we could from the shows. This is not like that at all. .
Good God, this is so wrong it's ludicrous. I hope you're actually 60 years old to be making such a statement. The GD had several peaks: 72-74, 77-78, 89-91... and each period has its partisans for "best ever". GD weren't a "washed up shell" by any stretch until 93 - 94. They were a great band and played many killer, killer shows in 1989, 1990, etc. IOW, the situation with Phish is EXACTLY the same: vets who have been around longer and prefer the way the band sounded in their youth, looking down on 3.0.. and they are entitled, but it's alot more fun to dig what is going on NOW.
JoyJoy.....You're obviously a Deadhead (and PhishHead) like me. I read your comments earlier today and have taken some time to reflect. I think you are right to correct me on one point: I overstated myself saying that the difference between Phish and the Dead is too vast to make comparisons. Obviously, there are many similarities, depending upon your view and the point you're trying to make. My point was that too many phans point needlessly to the "old days" in a way that seems to discredit their efforts today, which I believe is misguided.

Please let me correct you, however, about your GD history, if you're willing to listen. I am a huge fan of the band, and I have a ridiculously massive collection of SDB's of their shows, from '66 to '93, (never bothered with 94-95). The band did not, as you say, have several "peaks". There were several periods in which their music is considered better than in others, yes, but those are not "peaks." The GD peaked in the summer of 1972, after their European tour, as they toured the west coast. When Pigpen got very sick and then died, it derailed their momentum. '73 is considered by many to be their best year (myself included), but as '74 approached, their shows were becoming increasingly unfocused and uncohesive. Then they took time off. When they came back, refreshed, they were focused and the next 18 months was another period of great music (the '77 "peak" you referenced). Towards the end of this run, however, you could hear the rot starting to set in, as Jerry (and others in the band) began doing massive quantities of cocaine, and Keith Godchaux was falling to pieces. '78 saw lots of inconsistent playing. They were still hot, but were having quite a few off nights. By '80, Jerry was now dabbling in heroine and was letting himself go to complete shit. (Check out photos of him from '77, then '80, then '85. It's pretty scary.) His singing and playing went consistently downhill (as did the band's). There was a bump in energy for a year or so with the arrival of Brent (and departure of Donna), but then (due in no small part to Brent Mydland, who was a self-destructive party animal), Jerry started to completely fall apart. Do you remember the diabetic coma? Remember the bumper stickers "the Fat Man Melts" ? We were hoping and praying he'd turn it around. He did for a short time, resulting in a rennaissance between '87-89. DON'T call this a "peak". It was simply a brief return to professionalism and consciousness. By '91 he was a complete train wreck and they should have stopped touring (like Phish did when Trey was struggling). Don't speak to me of all the intense concerts from '80 on. I know what you're talking about. I followed them up and down the East Coast in the '80's, and I'm not speaking out of my ass.
Phish is so much better, so much more talented and so much more professional than the Dead ever were it's not funny. The Dead limped home (because of Jerry) while Phish is picking up steam (though it remains to be seen how they finish).

Anyway, I apologize for ranting on so long, but there's a lot of people who spout out the "conventional wisdom" on the Dead and it just isn't true. In that vein, you were right to say it is the same today, regarding phans' opinions and the "noobs", "vets" angle.

Please don't take offense, I know you're a veteran fan of the GD and I'm sure you know all this, but just maybe not from that perspective.

By the way, I'm not 60. Like I said before, I'm just under 50 and started going to Dead shows in '81. If that makes me unqualified to comment on their music before that period (which I own thousands of hours of), then that's pretty sad, and says a lot about the division we have in the Phish community.

Let's keep it real.
Score: 1
bertoletdown Phish.net Staff Reply
bertoletdown @FACTSAREUSELESS said: We were hoping and praying he'd turn it around. He did for a short time, resulting in a rennaissance between '87-89. DON'T call this a "peak".[/quote]

Oh, my, Heavens no... whatever you do!

LOL
Score: 0
fluff_hen Reply
fluff_hen I DO call GD 87-88-89-90 a peak. It's my favorite period of the GD, and I know other far bigger heads (obsessive tape traders, people who saw the band in the 70s, etc.) who agree. I don't need to be lectured on GD history by you; my husband worked on the compendium and I know way more than I ever needed to! How you describe their peak(s) is, you know, your opinion -- but what you posted earlier (about GD 80-95 all being "drivel" ;) is simply wrong.

I do agree about Phish picking up steam now! :)

and @bertoletdown, thank you for that beautiful and perfect description of Bug. Going to google Eckhardt Tolle now...
Score: 0
scooterpie Reply
"Phish is so much better, so much more talented and so much more professional than the Dead ever were it's not funny."

Ridiculous comment on its face. Would you care to elaborate/substantiate this claim? By the way Dennis McNally, the Dead's long-time publicist,had a great quote on this,,"The Grateful Dead could make you laugh, but they could also make you cry." I am a Phish fan but I can't say many of their songs have made me cry or even take me close to that emotional point that the Dead did. I have seen a few Phish fans cry but that was because their whippet tanks were confiscated....
Score: 0
FACTSAREUSELESS Reply
Okay everybody....I'm not going to try and defend my diatribe here....I knew I'd be attacked for it. You're actually being pretty nice about it....JoyJoy, I didn't intend on lecturing you....again, my point is that we're all nostalgic (I'll include myself)....it's difficult to seperate the facts from our own personal experience.

Obviously there's some disagreement about what constitutes a "peak" for a band. To me, a band only has one peak, but your points are well taken. I won't try to push my argument further.

bertoletdown, you cracked me up with your sarcasm....I deserved it, I guess. Point taken.

I think, personally, I lost a lot of respect for Jerry Garcia over the years because he was such a selfish pinhead. If you listen to Ratdog and Phil Lesh & Friends, it's obvious that it was Jerry who was holding the band back and no-one else. Maybe I'm grinding an axe and not being as subjective as I think I am. I don't know.

Scooterpie, understand that I was a classic Deadhead snob for years, looking down my nose at Phish as upstart punks who had no respect for their elders (musically). I thought Phish was fun, but overly goofy and punky.

I have come to understand that Phish has consistently performed at an extremely high level throughout their careers. Even during the rough period, they cranked out some classic shows. The Dead were far more inconsistent, with far more lackluster performances. They were sloppy, unfocused and lazy, in spite of their more aggressive tour schedule. I'm speaking musically, mind you.

I disagree about the emotional thing. Phish has brought me places consistently emotionally that the Dead only rarely did. The Dead were very dark. Phish goes there, but there is a joy and exhuberance (spelling?) to them that the Dead usually lacked. Trey's playing, in particular, is transcendant. Fish is a better drummer than Hart or Kruetzman, only Lesh holds his own, I think.

Anyway, we could go round and round. I'm happy to have the debate, it's great fun for me.

I think, in the end, my only point is that I think older fans (of the Dead or Phish) are defensive of their own memories, which take on mythical stature as the years roll by, and we (I include myself) overestimate how great those times were, because our emotions cause us to lose objectivity. Then, we argue because we're intelligent and we construct what we think are logical arguments to support our feelings. This process creates division among us. Everybody's experience with are it personal and just as valid as the next person's. Part of the fun is sharing those experiences. I certainly didn't intend on raining on your joy, joyjoy. Please forgive me for that.

Peace.
Score: 1
safetymeeting Reply
safetymeeting @FACTSAREUSELESS said:
I think, personally, I lost a lot of respect for Jerry Garcia over the years because he was such a selfish pinhead. If you listen to Ratdog and Phil Lesh & Friends, it's obvious that it was Jerry who was holding the band back and no-one else. Maybe I'm grinding an axe and not being as subjective as I think I am. I don't know.
I just need to counter this, as there are youngsters reading. Phil and Bob rode Jerry's coattails to riches and Jerry in no way was holding the band back. There wouldn't have been a "band" without JG.
Score: 0
bertoletdown Phish.net Staff Reply
bertoletdown FACTS: Cut Jerry a break, will you?

One of my favorite quotes, for which I can never find a source, is "never meet your heroes." I learned this at a young age and so I didn't have time to canonize Jerry Garcia before I realized he was... messy.

But shamans are messy people. They get banged up. It's right there in the contract.
Score: 1
waxbanks Reply
waxbanks @bertoletdown said:
Pilot, on this point I am with you and fuck that Waxbanks guy :) .

Bug is a great song.
i'd say, rather, that a lot of people relate very strongly to it despite it being a terrible song.

i say it's a 'set killer' in the sense that *for me* (and for lots of other folks) the first few minutes of the song are really tiresome, and they tend to happen at peak emotional moments -- trey relates differently to it than i do, christ knows. the mild cheek of the lyrics mismatches painfully, *to me*, with the sluggish music. there *are* profound phish songs, but bug goes for a little lyrical trick ('which did you think i meant?') instead of going deep.

i think there are some songs that trey feels so deeply that his sensitivity to their musical 'appropriateness' is reduced.

for me, Light is a more interesting song in the same vein -- but it's actually *alive* as music. Piper, to me, *embodies* (but doesn't lyrically evoke) the same rolling cyclical all-is-continuous feeling as Light, though the lyrics are just musical elements (meaningless as words).

and i don't mind stupid phish songs -- Steam has unbelievably bad lyrics too, but they fit superbly with the ever-increasing tension of the song's written part (which dissipates partially *as steam*, get it?). the whole song works. but SofL and Bug don't light anything up for me, and there are lots of phish songs that fit their roles in a second set without jarring lyrically.

also, fuck that bertoletdown guy. :)
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waxbanks Reply
waxbanks @FACTSAREUSELESS said:
Fish is a better drummer than Hart or Kruetzman, only Lesh holds his own, I think.
hmm. i alternate between over- and underrating kreutzmann. i like one-drummer dead best of all most days, and have spoken highly of his playing (here!) in the past. but i once read a snarky comment to the effect of 'kreutzmann got famous playing a single drumbeat for thirty years,' and haven't been able to shake it. it sure looks to me like fishman can do everything kreutzmann could do, and much much more besides. funnily enough, trey compares similarly to weir/garcia: one argument for trey's canonical status is that he can accomplish nearly as much on his own as those guys did together. (that said, his style is different enough from garcia's that this comparison's a little harder to make cleanly.)

i *think* fishman has a better touch than kreutzmann, plus better chops/ears/taste. but i'm very open to an argument that i'm not hearing all of what kreutzmann was up to. (christgau loved early dead, and dismissed both drummers as mediocrities. hmm.)

a bass note: mike gordon's a less original player than lesh, in no small part because his connection to rock bass in general is deeper and more fluent. he has never been a dilettante. and right now, for the first time, mike is arguably better than lesh has *ever* been.
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waxbanks Reply
waxbanks @themindpilot said:
Oh but if Garcia did SOL then it would be something? O geezze give me a break!
was i not clear? garcia could do more with a slow murder ballad on his worst day than trey could dream of doing -- it's not his thing, though he's closer than ever -- and i'd be curious to hear how garcia would handle a reworking of 'show of life.' if he could make goofy lyrics like 'terrapin' sound like a hymn, i bet he could lift SofL up.
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scooterpie Reply
was i not clear? garcia could do more with a slow murder ballad on his worst day than trey could dream of doing -- it's not his thing, though he's closer than ever -- and i'd be curious to hear how garcia would handle a reworking of 'show of life.' if he could make goofy lyrics like 'terrapin' sound like a hymn, i bet he could lift SofL up.
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agreed, and another thing, I have a sneaking suspicion that many more people enjoy listening to recorded Dead, i.e. old tapes sbds, etc, than old Phish just IMHO. I have been listening to the Dead for 25 years and am still blown away by the vast archive that is out there for this music. I am still discovering jems that I didn't even know existed, even from the "off years" such as 84-85. Are a substantial number of people listening to old Phish tapes from the early to mid 80"s? I have a hard time believing that it is but a fraction of those discovering still great Dead music from this era.
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waxbanks Reply
waxbanks @scooterpie said:
I have a sneaking suspicion that many more people enjoy listening to recorded Dead, i.e. old tapes sbds, etc, than old Phish just IMHO. I have been listening to the Dead for 25 years and am still blown away by the vast archive that is out there for this music.
well, the dead had a lot more time to accumulate tape addicts. :)

though on the other hand the dead's audience is shrinking, not growing; whereas it sounds like phish's audience *might* be starting to grow again, after atrophying during their breakup.

ok here's a more specific comparison: how many deadheads often listen, now, to their pre-1970 music, or even pre-1971 or -72? for me, that stuff is like 80s phish -- amazing music from a different band i don't feel any desire to listen to.

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safetymeeting Reply
safetymeeting @waxbanks said:

ok here's a more specific comparison: how many deadheads often listen, now, to their pre-1970 music, or even pre-1971 or -72? for me, that stuff is like 80s phish -- amazing music from a different band i don't feel any desire to listen to.
I don't often listen to pre-'70 GD, but when I listen to '72 - '78, I have a nagging tug from somewhere telling me I'm not listening to the 'genuine article'.
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waxbanks Reply
waxbanks @safetymeeting said:
@waxbanks said:

ok here's a more specific comparison: how many deadheads often listen, now, to their pre-1970 music, or even pre-1971 or -72? for me, that stuff is like 80s phish -- amazing music from a different band i don't feel any desire to listen to.
I don't often listen to pre-'70 GD, but when I listen to '72 - '78, I have a nagging tug from somewhere telling me I'm not listening to the 'genuine article'.
interesting. i can't imagine what post-pigpen gdead was like for folks who came up with the first version of that band. luckily, phish haven't undergone any transformations during my fandom that have permanently alienated me. :)
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scooterpie Reply
interesting. i can't imagine what post-pigpen gdead was like for folks who came up with the first version of that band. luckily, phish haven't undergone any transformations during my fandom that have permanently alienated me. :) [/quote]

by the way Waxbanks, I am enjoying your new book...

in any event, I wonder if a band will come along some day after Phish and then Phish will be bashed the way the Dead are here!
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MDosque Reply
MDosque I believe all arguments can be summed up as follows. Think about this for 5 solid minutes and admit that it's true.

The Dead = The Simpsons

Phish = Family Guy

Disco Biscuts = Futurama

Widespread Panic = King of the Hill
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MDosque Reply
MDosque Also, if you really want to do a Phish vs. Dead comparison by eras, it also unfolds nicely.

60's Dead = 80's Phish
70's Dead = 90's Phish
80's Dead = 00's Phish
90's Dead = 10's Phish

Let's hope that these easy comparisons stop during this decade and Phish gets into the 20's and beyond. I bet they do.
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FACTSAREUSELESS Reply
@waxbanks said:
@FACTSAREUSELESS said:
Fish is a better drummer than Hart or Kruetzman, only Lesh holds his own, I think.
it sure looks to me like fishman can do everything kreutzmann could do, and much much more besides. funnily enough, trey compares similarly to weir/garcia: one argument for trey's canonical status is that he can accomplish nearly as much on his own as those guys did together. (that said, his style is different enough from garcia's that this comparison's a little harder to make cleanly.)

i *think* fishman has a better touch than kreutzmann, plus better chops/ears/taste. but i'm very open to an argument that i'm not hearing all of what kreutzmann was up to. (christgau loved early dead, and dismissed both drummers as mediocrities. hmm.)

a bass note: mike gordon's a less original player than lesh, in no small part because his connection to rock bass in general is deeper and more fluent. he has never been a dilettante. and right now, for the first time, mike is arguably better than lesh has *ever* been.
FINALLY....someone who know what the fuck they're talking about.....
Yes, I think you are right on in your analysis. To answer an earlier question you posed, I find that when I listen to the Dead these days, I don't listen to much past '73, in fact I'm usually in '71-72. Pigpen added more to the band than rough tough-guy vocals. He was a musical influence, too. When he was around the band had an edge that they never really regained afterwards.

I think Cactus HAS indeed surpassed Lesh, but I really didn't want to say that 'cuz I have so much admiration for Phil. He was such a pioneer on the instrument (in the rock world, anyway), and is such an awesome guy. I think both Hart and Kreutzman are terrific drummers (I think Billy is slightly better), I just think that Fishman is OUTSTANDING. To your point on the one-drummer thing, I definitely think the Dead were much better with one drummer. That drummer was Kreutzman on the Europe '72 tour. When the Dead added Mickey, they gained power and lost subtlety. Jon Fishman has an incredible feel for rhythm and flow, and takes the lead at appropriate times. I like Kreutzman, too, though. In fact, check out Phish's show on 8/2/09, where Billy sits in on the 2nd set and aquits himself very well (especially on Undermind).

Trey is the best guitarist I've ever had the priviledge of studying, ever. I loved Jerry's playing (when he was conscious), but honestly, he could never hold a candle to Trey. Jerry was unique, yes, and I acknowledge he is much more lyrical than Trey in his style, while Trey is more percussive, but Trey goes places routinely that Jerry never touched. Jerry was magical in his own way....any '72 era Dark Star trumps any Phish jam I've ever heard. Well, that's not true, but it felt good to say it and it's close to true.

But Trey's playing actually brings me tears on a regular basis. He IS a Shaman, bertoletdown, truly.

Also, Page is FAR SUPERIOR a keyboardist than anyone the Dead ever had. He makes Mydland's playing seem very pedestrian by comparison. In fact, as great as the other three are in the band, I believe it's Page that really sets Fish apart and on another level. I've never heard another rock key player quite like him. His diversity is incredible.

ANYWAY.....I WILL GIVE KUDOS TO THE DEAD, WHOM I LOVE DEARLY, for the benefit of everyone who thinks I'm hating on Jerry and the gang....

I think Robert Hunter is a superior lyricist to Tom Marshall, and it's not close.
John Barlow, for that matter, is better.

Jerry was a better song writer than Trey, and it's not close.

The Dead blazed the trail, and for that they should always be revered.

THAT BEING SAID.....I have an interesting little game to play;
to answer scooterpie above......Scooter, you challenged me to substantiate my claim that Phish is far better and more talented than the Dead, well, here you go....

Take this forum, and apply all the same criticisms that Phish has to endure regulary to your favorite Dead concerts. I challenge you to write a review to ANY Dead show, from any era (apart from '72, which would fare quite well), using the same standards that the pros on this forum use. Such as: SETLISTS, TYPE 2 JAMMING, FLOW, TIGHTNESS, FLUBS, SET-KILLERS, ETC. I challenge you because the truth is that Phish is so damn good that they've spoiled us. They play an "average" show, and we rip 'em with a fine tooth comb, yet even on average nights, they surpass the performances of some the Dead's all-time classic shows.

I can name only five songs in the Dead's history that they consistently went Type II with:
Dark Star (which, by the way, has no peer)
Playing In the Band
The Other One
Truckin'
Eyes Of the World

Type II, by the way, that largely stopped after 1974. You don't see Type II afterwards, you really don't. In fact, you want to talk about the GREAT PEAK of '77 ???? Oh, you mean that tour where they played Estimated Prophet EVERY SINGLE FUCKING NIGHT?!
You mean THAT PEAK? Want to talk about the GREAT PEAK of '89?? You mean the age of 45 minute first sets?
Flow??? How about Ship of Fools in the middle of the 2nd set? Talk about set-killers. Show of Life is a timeless anthem compared to that dirge.

And tightness? Anyway, I'm starting to get fired up. No Deadhead who honestly listens to Phish for given period of time (I mean HONESTLY), can come to any conclusion other than Phish just plain brings the goods. The Dead were great, but musically not in the same class.

Phish has jammed almost every song in their repertoire at one time or another, the Dead never came close to that.

THANKFULLY, I never measured the Dead by the super-critical standards that a lot of Phish fans do their own band, which is why I'm always happy after a show. Never dissapointed. I still listen to and appreciate Jerry and Co. because I'm not measuring them by those standards. My whole point in all of this is shed light on the fact that I don't think Phish is properly appreciated.

Trey Anastasio is an absolute miracle. No-one of his stature has ever made such a complete recovery from substance abuse and gone back to such a high level, after coming so close to death. We must appreciate the significance of this. I DON'T WANT '97 TO EVER HAPPEN AGAIN. I'll take exquisitely played 14:00 minute Bowies over drugged-out 20 minute Pipers any day of the week. THAT'S WHY the boys are so happy these days....their friend is alive, smiling and on stage with them where he belongs.
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scooterpie Reply
@FACTSAREUSELESS said:
THAT BEING SAID.....I have an interesting little game to play;
to answer scooterpie above......Scooter, you challenged me to substantiate my claim that Phish is far better and more talented than the Dead, well, here you go....

Take this forum, and apply all the same criticisms that Phish has to endure regulary to your favorite Dead concerts. I challenge you to write a review to ANY Dead show, from any era (apart from '72, which would fare quite well), using the same standards that the pros on this forum use. Such as: SETLISTS, TYPE 2 JAMMING, FLOW, TIGHTNESS, FLUBS, SET-KILLERS, ETC. I challenge you because the truth is that Phish is so damn good that they've spoiled us. They play an "average" show, and we rip 'em with a fine tooth comb, yet even on average nights, they surpass the performances of some the Dead's all-time classic shows.

I can name only five songs in the Dead's history that they consistently went Type II with:
Dark Star (which, by the way, has no peer)
Playing In the Band
The Other One
Truckin'
Eyes Of the World

Type II, by the way, that largely stopped after 1974. You don't see Type II afterwards, you really don't. In fact, you want to talk about the GREAT PEAK of '77 ???? Oh, you mean that tour where they played Estimated Prophet EVERY SINGLE FUCKING NIGHT?!
You mean THAT PEAK? Want to talk about the GREAT PEAK of '89?? You mean the age of 45 minute first sets?
Flow??? How about Ship of Fools in the middle of the 2nd set? Talk about set-killers. Show of Life is a timeless anthem compared to that dirge.

And tightness? Anyway, I'm starting to get fired up. No Deadhead who honestly listens to Phish for given period of time (I mean HONESTLY), can come to any conclusion other than Phish just plain brings the goods. The Dead were great, but musically not in the same class.

Phish has jammed almost every song in their repertoire at one time or another, the Dead never came close to that.

..thanks for the thoughtful reply, @factsareuseless. you definitely have a point of view.And I will post a more detailed rebuttal later.

But in the meantime, I do beg to differ on a key point, though. To my mind and tastes, the fact that Phish "jammed" out to virtually every song in their repoirtoire is a weakness, rather than a strength (IMHO). I mean, don't you see it? No the dead didn't enter into a mind-numbing clusterF^$%$ of a jam every time they played "Cassidy" or "Cumberland" or ever "Big River",,but who wanted them too??? these were good "songs" straight ahead, no chaser needed.

I think this point can't be stressed enough. I believe the Dead excelled in this area where Phish did/does not.

I can think of countless shows from the mid to late 70's , early and late 80's and early nineties where they played sweet, compact, but powerful first sets with their cannon of songs which didn't require extensive jamming to prove their worth.

Score: 1
FACTSAREUSELESS Reply
But in the meantime, I do beg to differ on a key point, though. To my mind and tastes, the fact that Phish "jammed" out to virtually every song in their repoirtoire is a weakness, rather than a strength (IMHO). I mean, don't you see it? No the dead didn't enter into a mind-numbing clusterF^$%$ of a jam every time they played "Cassidy" or "Cumberland" or ever "Big River",,but who wanted them too??? these were good "songs" straight ahead, no chaser needed.

I think this point can't be stressed enough. I believe the Dead excelled in this area where Phish did/does not.

You're playing right into my hands, Scooter. It's all according to plan....
Oh, sorry, I have a Darth Vader coffee mug and I got carried away.

Seriously, you're making my point for me....Phish gets lambasted every time they perform a great show (which ends up getting labeled sub-par) without extensively jamming everything. If they just straight up kill it, one song after another, they get accused of "mailing it in", or being "rote and predictable". It makes me nauseous. I think you aren't giving enough credit to Phish's excellent songs in your attempt to make your point. But your point is a good one. I think it's not the band's fault, though, and we all know this. The error lies upon the fans, and their built-up expectations. Phish has no obligation to Type II (or Type I) anything. It's their music, and they do with it what they please.

I DO THINK that Phish is far tighter than the Dead ever were, except, as I mentioned previously, during their peak (as I call it) in '72. I also think they are superior in talent. Their songs are far more complex and and I think it bears mentioning that the foundation to Phish's music is fundamentally different than the Dead's. They are similar bands in the sense that they jam and do the two-set thing, and mix it up, but Phish is much more jazz-based, with elaborate song constructions, while the Dead obviously have more folk, bluegrass and blues underpinning their music. Neither is more valid than the other, just a different approach. Phish SHOULD have more type II than the Dead, by the sheer definition of what it's based on.

Anyhow......you may appreciate the following list of comparisons. MDosque, this is for you as well. You aren't really serious about Widespread Panic, are you? Never mind.
Here are some song analogies between the Dead and Phish that you may find thought-provoking.

Tweezer = Dark Star
Chalk Dust Torture = Sugar Magnolia
Ghost = Playing in the Band
Fluffhead = Weather Report Suite
Undermind = Victim or the Crime
Show of Life = Push Comes to Shove
Divided Sky = Uncle John's Band
Down With Disease = Hell In a Bucket
Mike's Groove = China Cat / I Know You Rider
Ocelot = Black Peter
David Bowie = Cryptical Envelopment / The Other One
Alaska = Dupree's Diamond Blues
NICU = Me and My Uncle
Sleeping Monkey = Monkey and the Engineer (coudn't resist that one)
Reba = New Potato Caboose
Anything But Me = Box of Rain
Sample In a Jar = Dire Wolf
Crosseyed & Painless = Big River

I could go on, but I'm out of time. Anyway, hope you found that thought-provoking and amusing.

Score: 1
FACTSAREUSELESS Reply
@MDosque said:

Let's hope that these easy comparisons stop during this decade and Phish gets into the 20's and beyond. I bet they do.
I'll toast to that.
Score: 0
scooterpie Reply
@FACTSAREUSELESS said:
But in the meantime, I do beg to differ on a key point, though. To my mind and tastes, the fact that Phish "jammed" out to virtually every song in their repoirtoire is a weakness, rather than a strength (IMHO). I mean, don't you see it? No the dead didn't enter into a mind-numbing clusterF^$%$ of a jam every time they played "Cassidy" or "Cumberland" or ever "Big River",,but who wanted them too??? these were good "songs" straight ahead, no chaser needed.

I think this point can't be stressed enough. I believe the Dead excelled in this area where Phish did/does not.

You're playing right into my hands, Scooter. It's all according to plan....
Oh, sorry, I have a Darth Vader coffee mug and I got carried away.

Seriously, you're making my point for me....Phish gets lambasted every time they perform a great show (which ends up getting labeled sub-par) without extensively jamming everything. If they just straight up kill it, one song after another, they get accused of "mailing it in", or being "rote and predictable". It makes me nauseous. I think you aren't giving enough credit to Phish's excellent songs in your attempt to make your point. But your point is a good one. I think it's not the band's fault, though, and we all know this. The error lies upon the fans, and their built-up expectations. Phish has no obligation to Type II (or Type I) anything. It's their music, and they do with it what they please.

I DO THINK that Phish is far tighter than the Dead ever were, except, as I mentioned previously, during their peak (as I call it) in '72. I also think they are superior in talent. Their songs are far more complex and and I think it bears mentioning that the foundation to Phish's music is fundamentally different than the Dead's. They are similar bands in the sense that they jam and do the two-set thing, and mix it up, but Phish is much more jazz-based, with elaborate song constructions, while the Dead obviously have more folk, bluegrass and blues underpinning their music. Neither is more valid than the other, just a different approach. Phish SHOULD have more type II than the Dead, by the sheer definition of what it's based on.

Anyhow......you may appreciate the following list of comparisons. MDosque, this is for you as well. You aren't really serious about Widespread Panic, are you? Never mind.
Here are some song analogies between the Dead and Phish that you may find thought-provoking.

Tweezer = Dark Star
Chalk Dust Torture = Sugar Magnolia
Ghost = Playing in the Band
Fluffhead = Weather Report Suite
Undermind = Victim or the Crime
Show of Life = Push Comes to Shove
Divided Sky = Uncle John's Band
Down With Disease = Hell In a Bucket
Mike's Groove = China Cat / I Know You Rider
Ocelot = Black Peter
David Bowie = Cryptical Envelopment / The Other One
Alaska = Dupree's Diamond Blues
NICU = Me and My Uncle
Sleeping Monkey = Monkey and the Engineer (coudn't resist that one)
Reba = New Potato Caboose
Anything But Me = Box of Rain
Sample In a Jar = Dire Wolf
Crosseyed & Painless = Big River

I could go on, but I'm out of time. Anyway, hope you found that thought-provoking and amusing.
yes a bit of both,,,way to make a comparison to Monkey and the Engineer!

how about IF I could= Stella Blue
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waxbanks Reply
waxbanks @factsareuseless and @scooterpie --

do you mind using the Reply button to set off quoted text in a float? it's pretty hard to read these long responses when quote and new text flow right into each other. thanks a mil.

--wa.
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phunky58 Reply
the 30th was easily the best night of the run thanks to the 2nd set particularly DWD and Carini. though the energy was high the other nights those special moments where IT happens were nowhere to be found. I live for the improvisation that was prevalent all throughout the dick's run. especially the fuck your face show which is def the best show of the year imo without a doubt. aside from the tweezer, dwd, carini, and piper everything was played straightforward. i enjoyed myself but i was left wanting much much more especially on new year's.
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FACTSAREUSELESS Reply
@bertoletdown said:
FACTS: Cut Jerry a break, will you?

One of my favorite quotes, for which I can never find a source, is "never meet your heroes." I learned this at a young age and so I didn't have time to canonize Jerry Garcia before I realized he was... messy.

But shamans are messy people. They get banged up. It's right there in the contract.
Yeah, upon further reflection I was a bit harsh. Sorry.
Score: 1
FACTSAREUSELESS Reply
@scooterpie said:
@FACTSAREUSELESS said: [quote]way to make a comparison to Monkey and the Engineer!

how about IF I could= Stella Blue
Dude......you got my attention with that one. Stella Blue is my all-time favorite Dead song. I was going to say:

Bug = Stella Blue (just to annoy waxbanks :) )

....but If I Could is a good call! Still there wax?
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phunky58 Reply
ocelot=tenn jed
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FACTSAREUSELESS Reply
not bad!

How about....

Theme From the Bottom........Eyes of the World
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FACTSAREUSELESS Reply
How 'bout....

Backwards Down the Number Line = Touch of Grey
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scooterpie Reply
this is all fine an dandy, but I still say, pound for pound, the Dead's SONGS were clearly better, lyrically and emotionally. Phish may have jammed more songs, but..
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FACTSAREUSELESS Reply
Sometimes the songs that we hear are just songs of our own.
Score: 1
DriedupGoliath Reply
DriedupGoliath I'd say Help on the Way> Slipknot> Franklin's Tower=Mike's Song> I Am Hydrogen> Weekapaug Groove

and

Sample in a Jar=Touch of Grey
Lifeboy=Black Peter
Slave to the Traffic Light=Morning Dew
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FACTSAREUSELESS Reply
@DriedupGoliath said:
I'd say Help on the Way> Slipknot> Franklin's Tower=Mike's Song> I Am Hydrogen> Weekapaug Groove

and

Sample in a Jar=Touch of Grey
Lifeboy=Black Peter
Slave to the Traffic Light=Morning Dew
Good call on the Slave=Dew pairing....That works nicely. I also like the Lifeboy=Peter pairing very much, more than the Ocelot=Peter that I came up with.
Not sure on the Jar=Grey one though.....think I'll stick with Backwards Down the # Line because it's very upbeat, and has a reflective "through the years" message.

I had Mike's Groove=China Cat/Rider because Mike's is a trifecta that has been in existence since Phish's early days and is always a crowd favorite, just like China Cat/Rider, which the Dead starting playing in early '70. However, Help/Slip/Franklin's is a true trifecta, like Mike's Groove, so you certainly can go there.
Another point in my imaginary game would be that China Cat/Rider was played far more frequently than Help/Slip/Franklin's, therefore is more comparable to Mike's Groove.

Either way, I need to get a life, don't I? This is way too much fun.

Score: 0
scooterpie Reply
there comes a redeemer and he slowly too fades away,,,
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ProfessorFrink Reply
OK, after reading through all of this, I couldn't help but put my two cents in, whether they'll be heeded or not. It's true that we 3.0 fans will almost certainly never get the transcendent Gins, 40 minute Tweezers, and hour long Jims of the 90s. We'll never see another Hotdog gag, or Trey's golden pants. But ya know what else we'll (hopefully) never see?
That ill-fated Vegas show (date is slipping my mind, but you know the one I mean.)
OxyTrey.
Coventry.
And that's a trade I'm willing to make, especially if we're still getting moments like this DwD and Carini, or 12/28's Wolfman's, or the Fee from the Riverbend '11 show. And the boys are clearly still having fun up there (a la one of the punniest New Year's gags of which I'm aware, or the banter at the AC run, or the smiles on their faces when they're hosing us down good and proper.)
So I guess what I'm trying to say is, take the good with the bad, cherish the past, but above all: QUIT. YOUR. BITCHING.
Score: 1
DriedupGoliath Reply
DriedupGoliath @FACTSAREUSELESS said:
@DriedupGoliath said:
I'd say Help on the Way> Slipknot> Franklin's Tower=Mike's Song> I Am Hydrogen> Weekapaug Groove

and

Sample in a Jar=Touch of Grey
Lifeboy=Black Peter
Slave to the Traffic Light=Morning Dew
Good call on the Slave=Dew pairing....That works nicely. I also like the Lifeboy=Peter pairing very much, more than the Ocelot=Peter that I came up with.
Not sure on the Jar=Grey one though.....think I'll stick with Backwards Down the # Line because it's very upbeat, and has a reflective "through the years" message.

I had Mike's Groove=China Cat/Rider because Mike's is a trifecta that has been in existence since Phish's early days and is always a crowd favorite, just like China Cat/Rider, which the Dead starting playing in early '70. However, Help/Slip/Franklin's is a true trifecta, like Mike's Groove, so you certainly can go there.
Another point in my imaginary game would be that China Cat/Rider was played far more frequently than Help/Slip/Franklin's, therefore is more comparable to Mike's Groove.

Either way, I need to get a life, don't I? This is way too much fun.
Agree with your points, but just correcting you slightly in the fact that China Rider was first played in '69, specifically 9/30/69.
Score: 0

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